May 12, 2021
Dr. Peter Gray
Peter Gray is a research professor of psychology at
Boston College who has conducted and published research in
neuroendocrinology, developmental psychology, anthropology, and
education. He is author of an internationally acclaimed
introductory psychology textbook (Psychology, Worth Publishers, now
in its 8th edition), which views all of psychology from an
evolutionary perspective. His recent research focuses on the role
of play in human evolution and how children educate themselves,
through play and exploration, when they are free to do so. He has
expanded on these ideas in his book, Free to Learn: Why Unleashing the
Instinct to Play Will Make Our Children Happier, More Self-Reliant,
and Better Students for Life (Basic Books). He also authors a
regular blog called Freedom to Learn, for Psychology
Today magazine. He is a founding member and former president of
the nonprofit Alliance for
Self-Directed Education (ASDE), which is aimed at creating a
world in which children’s natural ways of learning are facilitated
rather than suppressed. He is also a founder of the nonprofit Let
Grow, the mission of which is to renew children’s freedom to play
and explore outdoors, independently of adults. He earned his
undergraduate degree at Columbia College and Ph.D. in biological
sciences at the Rockefeller University many years ago. His own
current play includes kayaking, bicycling, cross-country skiing,
vegetable gardening, chopping wood for his home’s wood-burning
stove, and writing occasional sonnets.
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Show Notes
- Dr. Peter Gray has spent years researching how children
naturally learn. He focused on play and what children are doing
when they play and the function of play. He’s interested in play
from an evolutionary perspective, children’s nature that comes
about by natural selection to serve the function of
education.
- As Jenna was researching self directed learning, she came upon
the six optimizing conditions for self directed education and found
it extremely helpful in guiding her toward an environment at home
that was ideal for learning.
- Dr. Gray developed the six optimizing conditions for
self directed learning based on what he studied at The
Sudbury Valley School and through surveying ten anthropologists who
had studied and lived among 7 different hunter-gatherer
communities. He found many similarities between the hunter-gatherer
communities and the students at Sudbury Valley School.
- The first condition is the social expectation
and reality that education is children’s responsibility. Dr. Gray
observed that children come into the world biologically designed to
educate themselves. Right from the beginning, children are curious
and figuring things out on their own initiative. If adults believe
that children need to be forced to learn, we can talk them out of
the idea that they’re responsibility. We essentially send them the
message that their curiosity doesn’t count. The adults in the
child’s environment are not conveying the view that the adult is
responsible for their education.
- Jenna asks where does that that idea come from that adults have
to educate children?
- Dr. Gray explains that the original purpose for education was
to teach obedience. Autonomy was valued in hunter-gatherer bands,
but agriculture changed all of this. An hierarchy arose by way of
land ownership. This led to feudalism, whereby everyone was
dependent on the land owners. It became imperative that Serf
parents teach their children to obey for their own survival in this
hierarchical world. The original schools were developed by
Protestants in Prussia. There were three purposes for schools at
that time; reading (as it was very common at that time for average
day families to be literate), indoctrination (save children’s
souls), teach obedience. Willfulness was sinfulness. Children were
meant to memorize content, otherwise they’d be punished. Nobody
questioned it. Most teachers don’t have this goal in today’s modern
world, however they are entering into a school system which was
never designed for that and is incapable of promoting creativity,
critical thinking and a love for learning. The only way you can
pass in school is to do what you’re told to do and the only
way to fail is to not do what you’re told to do. So even today, the
goal is still obedience.
- The second optimized condition for SDE is
unlimited freedom to play, explore, and pursue their own interests.
Kids need lots of time to do this, essentially all day. Kids from
the age of about four on through late teenage years in
hunter-gatherer communities had all day to play and explore. This
is the same way Sudbury Valley School models their school. It
allows children to exercise their nature-given gifts that are for
the purpose of education. Dr. Gray recalls in his own education
back in the 50’s, there were far fewer hours spent in school and on
homework and therefore he had time to spend playing and exploring
outside the confines of a school setting, unlike how it is today.
School was never a great place for learning, but it didn’t occupy
so much of a child’s day.
- Adult-directed sports, clubs, and extracurriculars are no
replacement for play. It’s yet another place where obedience is the
primary issue. If it’s self selected it’s fine, but when that type
of activity is occupying so much of a child’s time, they are
deprived of the opportunity to figure things out on their
own.
- In highschool, Jenna’s day started at 6am, she went to school,
came home in time for dinner, did homework and then went to bed.
There was no time for play or creative pursuits.
- Dr. Gray says we are raising a generation of sleep-deprived
kids, and studies conducted during the pandemic have revealed that
due to school closures, children are getting more sleep and parents
and children are reporting improved moods because of it.
- Jenna shares how her son is now getting 3 hours of extra sleep
because he’s at home learning.
- The third optimizing condition for SDE is
opportunity to play with tools of the culture. By play, it’s meant
that children get to use the tool in whichever way they choose.
Children want to use tools in meaningful ways, build something,
cook something, etc. In any culture, children are naturally drawn
to the most important tools of their culture. Playing with those
tools is how you develop mastery of the tools. In hunter-gatherer
bands, parents and older kids might help facilitate this learning
by making small versions of these tools. Computers are the most
important tools of our culture, which is why children are drawn to
them. Other tools that are important in our culture are kitchen
appliances, wood tools, sports equipment, books, etc. One advantage
to a self-directed learning center or school is that they might
have a more diverse collection of tools in which the children can
discover and use.
- Jenna shares her experience as a teacher, in which she handed
out scientific equipment to students and they were compelled to
play with it before the actual lesson began. It was evident to her
that her students weren’t interested in being directed through the
activity using the tools, instead they would have rather discovered
its uses on their own.
- Dr. Peter Gray points out that kids want to figure out how to
use a tool, rather than being shown how to use it. Of course,
safety and proper use of tools is important before use of dangerous
or delicate tools.
- Jenna remembers reading in Peter Gray’s book, Free To Learn
about a study done on babies where researchers observed how two
independent groups of babies responded to toys given to them
without being shown all the ways in which you can play with it, and
toys given to them where the researcher spent a great deal of time
showing the baby what you can do with the toy. The babies who
weren’t given instruction about how the toy worked learned more
about the toy and found more ways of playing with the toy. The most
interesting toys are ones that have infinite ways of playing with
it. Dr. Gray points out how this is akin to math instruction in
school because kids are being given the way to do the math problem,
which takes away the discovery and curiosity in math
problems.
- The fourth optimizing condition for SDE is
access to a variety of caring adults who are helpers, not judges.
Caring adults could be family members, friends, or mentors to the
child. They are glad to help but are not evaluating or judging the
child in any way. It’s important because we can’t be fully honest
when we are being judged by others. You’re not likely to present
your problems to someone who is judging you. You’re going to be
orientated toward, what does this person want me to say and what
does this person want me to do? There’s an artificiality in your
interaction with someone who is judging you. Adults are there to
help when children ask for it. It’s tough in our society since
everything is measured and competitive. In a school setting, it's
impossible not to evaluate or judge. Being judged is stressful,
which inhibits your performance on anything you’re not good at and
your creativity. The ideal situation would be where the individual
is the only judge of their work or performance. Children need a
variety of adults to observe, so they can get a sense of what it’s
like to be an adult and get a broader sense of what adults are
like. Children can also learn from adults with various skills and
professions.
- Jenna is reminded of the saying, “it takes a village to raise a
child.” She jokingly tells her husband they should go live on a
commune because the way our culture lives, in our individual houses
sometimes isolated from family, is not conducive to how children
learn.
Helpful Resources Mentioned in Today's Show
Alliance for
Self Directed Education
Free To Learn by Peter
Gray
Psychology
Today
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